Authenticity and Taking Up Space: How to Stop People Pleasing with Beth Koritz | #60

“You can’t be authentic if you’re people pleasing.”  

To stop people pleasing, you have to know yourself authentically and stop looking for outside validation from others. Your self actualization is not in those people! 

Join me and Beth Koritz as we talk about authenticity, synchronicity, trauma responses, and the people you might lose along the way as you stick to your boundaries.   

Highlights include: Why Rachel Hollis is THE WORST, how Beth turned her life around at age fifty and created her most passionate life, body positivity and Health at Every Size, what we sacrifice about our authentic lives in order to keep the peace, and SO MUCH MORE. This conversation was so good, it was hard for us to stop!   

Beth Koritz is a best-selling author, licensed professional counselor, and Intuitive Clarity Coach. Her passion is helping people create their dream life in alignment with the authentic self & purpose.  

After a lifetime of entrepreneurship, Beth came to her own realization that the checklist lifestyle she had been living wasn’t a true representation of her authentic self. At the age of 48, she did her own work to claim her purpose and break through the fears and excuses that were getting in her way. That’s when Beth returned to school and got her master’s degree in counseling. 

After years of serving hundreds of clients in her private counseling practice, Beth knew she had to find a way to help support more people on a larger scale. That’s when the Authenticity Academy was born, offering group and 1-on-1 clarity coaching.  

Now Beth combines her expertise as a licensed therapist, certified in body-positive psychology and thought field therapy with the insights she gained on her own personal journey to help hundreds of people live a life in alignment with who they were meant to be.  

Find Beth at YourClarity.Coach to get the scoop on working with her 1:1 to embrace your most authentic self.   

We also talked about a lot of resources and books, which you can find here:   

Intuitive Eating (Elyse Resch): 

The Fuck It Diet (Caroline Dooner): 

Beth’s Book “Resilience Road,” which you can get for free on Kindle Unlimited: 

My book “The Gaslighting of the Millennial Generation”

  And if I missed anything, let me know!   

I LOVE hearing your favorite parts of the podcast every week, so shoot me a DM on Instagram @CaitlinLizFisher, and don’t forget to sign up for my email list at 


[00:00:00] Caitlin Fisher: All right everyone. Welcome back to Run Like Hell Toward Happy, the podcast where we unlearn the hustle and embrace our passions. And today we are talking about people pleasing and how to stop doing it. And how do you let go of wanting everyone to like you. And for this delightful topic I’m bringing in Beth Koritz, a bestselling author, licensed professional counselor, and intuitive clarity coach.

Her passion is helping people create their dream life in alignment with the authentic self and purpose. After a lifetime of entrepreneurship, Beth came to her own realization that the checklist lifestyle she had been living was not a true representation of her authentic self.

Same. Giant same. Big same.

And at the age of 48, she did her own work to claim her purpose and break through the fears and excuses that were getting in her way. That’s when Beth returned to school, got her master’s degree in counseling, and after years of serving hundreds of clients in private practice, she knew she had to find a way to support more people on a larger scale.

That’s when the Authenticity Academy was born, offering group and one-on-one clarity coaching. Now Beth combines her expertise as a licensed therapist, certified in body positive psychology and thought field therapy with the insights she gained on her own personal journey to help hundreds of people live life in alignment with who they were meant to be.

What a write up!

[00:01:29] Beth Koritz: Yeah, that sounded pretty good. .

[00:01:31] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah, that did sound pretty good. So, hi Beth, welcome to the show.

[00:01:34] Beth Koritz: Hi. Thanks for having me.

[00:01:36] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah. So something I have to touch on before we get into the people pleasing thing is that before we started recording, you told me that you hated writing, and as a bestselling author, I gotta hear more. So why did you write a book if you did not enjoy writing?

[00:01:55] Beth Koritz: Well, for years, so I have let, I have lived insane kind of life, not that I’ve had all these hundreds of crazy adventures and stories, but I’ve had many health things and so many, so many things that are crazy. Like having two diseases at the same time that you’re not supposed to be able to have both at the same time. Supposed to be impossible.

[00:02:24] Caitlin Fisher: Interesting.

[00:02:24] Beth Koritz: So, yeah. And right. So You know, paralyzed from the shoulders down and have to learn it all again. I broke my back. Was still doing my broken back therapy when I was diagnosed with breast cancer. It’s like, it’s insane. So people have always been like, You have to write a book. You have to write a book.

And I’ve always been like, Why is anybody gonna care? Why is anybody gonna care about my stories? But then I realized that I could combine my stories with my therapeutic practice, therapeutic journey that I take my clients through, and the book could be a teaching and learning experience at the same time, then I was okay with it.

You know, people really could get something out of it more than just reading some stranger’s stories, even though they’re great stories. So I decided to write a book. Not gonna lie, I got some help. Right. I got some help from a writer who I, we sat together for probably 40 hours and I had just told the stories of my life.

She put it together into some semblance and then I took it and, you know, wrote it. filled in, you know, embellished. Did all that.

[00:03:47] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah. Connected the dots.

[00:03:49] Beth Koritz: Connected the dots. Then I hired a professional editor. And it was working with her. We were in her office. I flew to Denver to work with her, and we’re in her office and she was like, ‘Explain, I don’t understand, like this system that you take people through.’

And I started writing it out on this big piece of paper, like kind of a mind map for her, to help her understand. And then I was like, Oh my God, there’s a coaching program here. Like I had written the whole outline while trying to explain this to her. And that is where the Authenticity Academy came from.

[00:04:27] Caitlin Fisher: That’s awesome. So tell me a little about the authenticity Academy and this, this mind map thing, because I love chaos and this sounds like chaos turned into a really cool thing for you.

[00:04:41] Beth Koritz: Well, so you know, also before we went live We were talking about adhd.

[00:04:47] Caitlin Fisher: Yes, we sure were.

[00:04:48] Beth Koritz: And, right, how being neuro divergent, we, I just don’t think like everybody else. And you probably don’t either, I would assume, right?

[00:04:59] Caitlin Fisher: Correct.

[00:04:59] Beth Koritz: Yeah. So, and when something excites me, I go full bore, right? We all do that. I think. Full fucking bore. Like get out of our way. Yeah, we’re gonna steamroll you right through.

Right. So see, I kind of forgot the original question.

[00:05:16] Caitlin Fisher: What’s the authenticity academy and the…

[00:05:19] Beth Koritz: So I have a process for being living your authentic life because, What I found in my therapy practice is if I ask my clients to tell me about who they are. Tell me about yourself, and they’d all say, you know, whatever, I’m a mom. I have three kids. I volunteer at this, and I, I have a part-time job at that, or I work here. And I’m like, Yeah, but that doesn’t tell me anything about who you are. That’s all about what you do. Yeah, I wanna know about who you are. And I’m not exaggerating when I say 99% of my clients just stop. And some tear up and they hesitate and they say, I have no idea. I don’t even know how to answer that question.

Right? So you can’t start living your authentic life until you know who you are. So that’s step one. You know, you have to learn about who you are, I say at a soul level, right? These are the, the things that are a part of you, and they don’t change as your life changes.

They are who you came into this world being, right? So it’s, and I also say they’re adjectives. Write me a list. I want you to start with, I try and get them to do like 25 and they’re like 25? I can’t even come up with five. So I’ll work with them for a little bit on a few, but they’re adjectives. If it’s a noun, it’s a verb, it doesn’t go on the list.

[00:07:06] Caitlin Fisher: So I can’t say writer. I can’t say a writer’s who I am.

[00:07:10] Beth Koritz: No, that’s what you do.

[00:07:12] Caitlin Fisher: But I love it.

[00:07:14] Beth Koritz: Yeah, cuz it’s what you love what you do .

[00:07:19] Caitlin Fisher: Ooh. Ooh. 25 adjectives is hard, Beth.

[00:07:24] Beth Koritz: It’s not once you get rolling.

[00:07:27] Caitlin Fisher: Okay.

[00:07:28] Beth Koritz: Okay. Can you gimme five?

[00:07:32] Caitlin Fisher: I’m generous.

[00:07:34] Beth Koritz: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:35] Caitlin Fisher: I am loving.

[00:07:36] Beth Koritz: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:38] Caitlin Fisher: I am compassionate.

[00:07:42] Beth Koritz: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:42] Caitlin Fisher: these are all hitting me as things that benefit other people around me.

[00:07:47] Beth Koritz: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:48] Caitlin Fisher: Interesting. Okay, great. I’m funny.

[00:07:52] Beth Koritz: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:53] Caitlin Fisher: and I’m adorable.

[00:07:55] Beth Koritz: There you go. That wasn’t so hard.

[00:07:57] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah. All right.

[00:07:59] Beth Koritz: That wasn’t so hard. Right?

[00:08:02] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah.

[00:08:03] Beth Koritz: So if, if somebody, Oh, and then the next question always is, well, do you mean good and bad qualities?

And I, I initially chuckled because to me the very definition of quality, I believe is good. But if you come up with something not so good, I still want you to write it down because then we’re gonna go over it together. You might have it on the not so good side because the patriarchy has told you it’s not good coming from a female presenting person.

[00:08:32] Caitlin Fisher: Mm-hmm.

[00:08:33] Beth Koritz: Right. If you were a man, would it be on the good side? Obviously I deal mostly with women.

[00:08:40] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah. So that, you know that assertive versus bitchy.

[00:08:46] Beth Koritz: Exactly. Exactly. Mm-hmm.

[00:08:50] Caitlin Fisher: this is delicious. And this leads us right into people pleasing.

[00:08:54] Beth Koritz: It does. It does. So, so first we have to get them to see it as good or work on changing it, because we do all have some, not some characteristics that we don’t love about ourselves, you know.

So people pleasing. Okay. You still have to go through this system in order to not people please. And here’s why. If you, in order to feel good about yourself, like really about who you are, not about how you look, not about the crowd you hang out with, but to feel good about who you are in a bubble, you have to really know who you are, right?

[00:09:35] Caitlin Fisher: Mm-hmm.

[00:09:36] Beth Koritz: So after knowing now, I work with you on feeling good about that person. Right, because you maybe aren’t… look, if you read that list, if a friend gave you that list or a stranger, wouldn’t you assume they’re a good person?

[00:09:54] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah.

[00:09:54] Beth Koritz: Why don’t you see yourself as a good person, right?

[00:09:57] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah.

[00:09:58] Beth Koritz: So we work a lot on that.

Now, once you like who you are and you see yourself as a good person, only then can you really stop people pleasing. Because you now can get all the validation you need internally. As long as you need external validation, you will people please to get it. Interesting. Yeah. It’s a pretty simple equation, right?

[00:10:29] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah. Like external validation feels good. It’s nice when people are proud of me or people say like, Wow, you do really great work. Like I love that. I love a testimonial. But yeah, when that, when that is the driving force when I’m like, Well, I coach people because then they tell me I’m a good coach, that’s, that’s not really helpful.

[00:10:51] Beth Koritz: What if you’re in a group? What if you’re in a social situation and you feel insecure and you need to hear something nice from somebody in order to feel secure? Yeah. Then you do nice things, right? That’s external validation instead of, you know, if you go to, let’s say you go to a party by yourself and you’re feeling insecure, right?

But if you know that you’re a good person, you’re a fun person, right? You, your presence improves the room, right? Whether people talk to you or not, right? It’s so much less uncomfortable. Because you have that validation from yourself, right? You’re not, you’re not freaking out at this party because you need someone to tell you that you’re welcome there.

Like, you walk in, like, you know, you’re welcome there. You’re at this party. This is a cool party, right? And if you’re sitting by yourself, like, I’ll go anywhere by myself because, and I will sit alone, I will be at a party, and if I wanna sit alone in the corner and watch what’s going on. I will do that.

And not worry about what somebody thinks because I’m alone. Yeah. Like if they think I’m the loser in the corner, I don’t care. I know I’m not a loser.

[00:12:18] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah. I like this. That’s very good. Like being content with who you are, just down to your core.

[00:12:26] Beth Koritz: Mm-hmm.

[00:12:26] Caitlin Fisher: means like you don’t have to go double check that you’re a good person with other people.

[00:12:33] Beth Koritz: Right.

[00:12:34] Caitlin Fisher: I like it. I, That’s powerful.

[00:12:36] Beth Koritz: Yeah. And it’s not that hard. I mean Sure. Sometimes there’s trauma, especially childhood trauma. Yeah. That stops people there, right?

[00:12:47] Caitlin Fisher: Yep.

[00:12:47] Beth Koritz: And that has to be worked through, and that’s why I think it’s a good thing that I’m a licensed therapist.

[00:12:54] Caitlin Fisher: Definitely.

[00:12:55] Beth Koritz: You know, I, I will say, I’m gonna just put it out there. My pet peeve is people who call themselves coaches who have no, like business coaching on mental health issues like trauma.

[00:13:10] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah. I always make sure to say, like, when I speak about trauma, I am telling you like, as someone who has worked through their trauma, Like myself and like things that I have read and stuff, but I am not a clinician. Like I can’t diagnose or treat. I can just tell you what has worked for me and recommend books and therapy and, and all that sort of stuff. So yeah, I wanna be a safe place for people to like share trauma, but at the same time I’m like, this isn’t therapy. I’m not licensed. To help you heal trauma, but like I can help you write a book , right?

[00:13:55] Beth Koritz: And probably if you referred them to a therapist, your work with them would go much faster. If they were also getting therapy. I once, back in the day when I was starting this, you know, eight years ago when personal networking was still a thing, you know, I think the pandemic just destroyed that. But I met with a coach. I met, I went to meet her for coffee because I was thinking coaches would be great referrals for my me as a therapist. And I said, you know, do you have a therapist you work with that you refer your anxiety cases to? You know anxiety, depression. And she said, Oh no, I know EFT, so I can do all those things.

[00:14:35] Caitlin Fisher: Oh boy.

[00:14:36] Beth Koritz: And I was like,

[00:14:40] Caitlin Fisher: That’s so funny because I’m like the opposite. I’m like, Should I go to grad school and get a counseling degree so that I,

[00:14:46] Beth Koritz: Well that’s what happened, right. What, what I don’t talk about a lot is right before I went to school, I was doing business development coaching and I realized that the people I was working with had these fears and blocks that to really help them, I needed a real education to help them get through. You know, and so that is Inevit in the end what got me that last push into school for my masters in counseling.

[00:15:17] Caitlin Fisher: Nice. So you have a master’s? No, PhD, just masters?

[00:15:20] Beth Koritz: No, I, I didn’t go for the doctorate because I’d still be doing the same job for the same money.

[00:15:26] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah. PhDs are hard.

[00:15:27] Beth Koritz: Another $60,000 in debt and yeah, four years before I could start. I mean, I didn’t start until I was 50. So I didn’t really want to put another two years into school. That wouldn’t make a difference in my career.

[00:15:40] Caitlin Fisher: I love that. I also love that you made this huge pivot at 50. Yeah. Let’s talk about that because so many people, first of all, I, so I’m 34 and I have some people in my orbit who are just turning 30 and the way that like society acts like your life better beyond a trajectory by 30 or else is hilarious to me because hooo, my five year plan when I was 25 did not happen and I’m so glad it didn’t. Like 30 is still like, it’s, it’s when you barely start not giving a fuck what other people think. Honestly.

[00:16:25] Beth Koritz: Right.

[00:16:25] Caitlin Fisher: I think, I’m like, life starts at 30 for me. Like my thirties have been great so far, and so I love that you at 50 were like, Nope, something new, something different. Gotta follow that passion. Gotta follow that purpose, that authenticity. So that is gorgeous to me. I love seeing that. So what, just from like a coaching perspective, what were some of the fears and thoughts that came up? Did you…

[00:16:52] Beth Koritz: I had a lot of fears. I, This is a good story and it’s in my book because this was really, I’ve had a few, like, I don’t even… lightning strikes, you know, one of the first lightning strikes was when I was on life support when I had Guillan Barre and was paralyzed from the shoulders down, right? Because all you have time to do on life support is think. They don’t turn on a TV for you or anything. You’re stuck in your own mind for 24 7.

And then the next one, or another one, was this…. So I was looking for work. I had just gone through a bankruptcy because I had been building with a partner like million dollar homes, and this was in 2008. And the real estate, the market crashed.

[00:17:39] Caitlin Fisher: Right.

[00:17:39] Beth Koritz: And we went through, yeah. So my bank called in everything before it was due, and it, they threw me into bankruptcy, which was, for me, the hardest thing I’ve ever gone through. And I’ve gone through some really hard things, right?

[00:17:55] Caitlin Fisher: Like compared to being like, your whole body paralyzed, you’re like, no, bankruptcy was worse.

[00:18:00] Beth Koritz: It was worse. It really was be because it was like a failure. Yeah. You know, I saw it as a failure. Now, bigger, richer, smarter builders went down too. Right? Everybody went down. Yeah. But it, it really, it hit, So anyway, I’m looking from, I’m trying to decide what I’m going to do next, and a friend– I never pass up any opportunities –and I was on Facebook and a friend posted, Hey, I’m going to this Dream University all day long retreat. I bought a ticket. I get to bring a friend for free. I was like, Me, me, me. I’ll go. Right? I mean, I immediately, but I didn’t even know what it was like. Is it dreams that we have for our life or dreams in our sleep. Like what we’re, are we gonna be analyzing our dreams? I showed up still with no idea.

[00:18:54] Caitlin Fisher: I love it

[00:18:54] Beth Koritz: but I knew a lot of people in the crowd and I was like, Ooh, this is my tribe here in this room of 300 people. And it turned out it was this woman who runs her company is called Dream University and she’d been on Oprah and the whole bit.

And she, me going through this with her, Helped me identify all my fears and the smartest thing she ever did, lessen to anybody who’s listening to this that is ever gonna run a seminar or a group of some kind. If you’re going to pair people up, you make it be strangers. So I could be so vulnerable.

Because this person in front of me was a stranger, and I just like, right, could have tears running down my face as I’m talking to her. And in the morning and in the afternoon it was two different strangers. But while they are, I’m like listing every fear and then I have a response to every fear. And you know, my fears were, I think what anybody’s fears would be.

I can’t afford it. What if I can’t do it? What if I can’t make it through school? What if I make it through school and I don’t like it? What if I make it through school and I’m not good at it or I don’t earn enough money? What if… Are people gonna think that I’ve done a million things in my life and now I’m moving into yet another one?

Like, am I just this flaky, can’t stick to anything? Is that their view of me? I know that if I go into therapy, I am never gonna make much money. Am I okay with that? Like all of these fears and I had, it turns out like I had an answer for every single one. Because I really felt like this was the right thing for me, right.

Once something is right, there’s all this synchronicity. Yeah. Like, it’s like dominoes, right? So, you know what if I’m too old who says how old you can be, You know, that’s just stupid. What? But I can’t afford it. But I’ll find a way. I’ll find a way. What will people think? I have to stop caring what people think.

If this is what I’m supposed to be doing, I need to do it no matter what. Like, it felt like a calling at this point, right? What if I am no good at it? I know I’m gonna be good at it. Like I just, I inherently knew I was gonna be a good therapist. Mm-hmm. , you know? You know, I just had a response for everyone.

So then I’m gonna tell you just a moment about the synchronicity. So the next day, no. So I go home and I’m like on the computer looking for programs, right? And I’m looking for social worker programs. At the time, I did not know the difference between a social worker and a therapist, and the social work school had just closed enrollment.

And I’m like, What? I just made this big decision. No, like my, my world is falling. Let me just see what else is still in open enrollment. And the school of therapy was, and then I’m reading the difference between the two of them and I’m like, Oh my God, I never wanted to be a social worker in the first place.

That’s not what I wanna do. I don’t wanna do case management. You know? And thank goodness the enrollment was closed, right.

[00:22:22] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah.

[00:22:23] Beth Koritz: So I apply, I get full student loan eligibility, and the next day I see another thing on Facebook. Somebody is looking for a part-time program creator. I call her immediately, like the number was in the post. I call. I said, Hi, this is Beth Koritz and I– and she interrupted me and she said, Oh, Beth, I know exactly who you are. I’d love to talk to you about this job. Come in and meet with me. And, but like you, I could– , I didn’t even know what to say. She interrupted my spiel. And I like, How do you know who I am? Like, I couldn’t even recover.

I couldn’t even recover from that. You know, I go in, I meet with her, I get the job, the hours are flexible. I can make them whatever I want so I can study at the same time. You know, it was perfection.

[00:23:19] Caitlin Fisher: I love that. Like when you make a decision and then the universe comes in and it’s like, All right, cool. I’m glad you made that decision. Here. I’m here to help you. Like, it, I deleted all my dating apps in 2020.

[00:23:33] Beth Koritz: Mm-hmm.

[00:23:34] Caitlin Fisher: like February, 2020. I was like, I’m done with this. I’m done with assholes, like, I’m gonna meet somebody in real life, Which a thing that I had never done.

[00:23:43] Beth Koritz: Mm-hmm.

[00:23:44] Caitlin Fisher: I was a chronic online dater. And within days my favorite bar posted that they were gonna have speed dating, and so I signed up for speed dating and just celebrated one year in the house that I co-bought with my partner. So,

[00:24:01] Beth Koritz: Oh my gosh. Congratulations. I love that

[00:24:05] Caitlin Fisher: We’ve been together going on three years. And we met at speed dating.

[00:24:10] Beth Koritz: That’s awesome.

[00:24:11] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah. That’s really, I love, I was just like, No, I’m not doing it anymore, universe. The universe was like, Okay, here you go. I was waiting. I was waiting for you to be ready.

[00:24:20] Beth Koritz: Yeah.

[00:24:21] Caitlin Fisher: I made this for you. And I’m like, Thank you, universe. He’s perfect.

[00:24:25] Beth Koritz: That’s awesome. Now I’d like to go back and touch on something else you said about feeling like you’re doing something forever. Right. I tell all my clients the job you’re looking for is not your last job. It’s your next job. The school you decide to go to, you don’t have to graduate from, You can transfer, right? Nothing is permanent. Mm. So don’t be afraid to try something. Trying and having it not work out is not a failure. It’s an elimination.

[00:25:04] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah.

[00:25:06] Beth Koritz: Right?

[00:25:06] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah. The way I put that is that the goal police do not jump out of the bushes and beat you with a stick. Like I teach adjustable goals, like if you’re working on a goal and it sucks, please stop. Please don’t do things that you hate. Which is why I was so curious and had to ask you like, how did you write a book when you hated the process ? Cause it’s a lot of work.

[00:25:31] Beth Koritz: It is a lot. I just got so far down the rabbit hole that

[00:25:35] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah. I think that you also really strategically used help.

[00:25:39] Beth Koritz: Yeah.

[00:25:40] Caitlin Fisher: So someone to take your, your verbal story and turn that into, A Word document that you could then go in and flesh out, and then an editor worth their weight in gold, like a good editor is fantastic.

[00:25:56] Beth Koritz: Right.

[00:25:57] Caitlin Fisher: Did you self-publish or are you traditionally published?

[00:26:00] Beth Koritz: I self-published, Yeah.

[00:26:01] Caitlin Fisher: And it’s a best seller.

[00:26:02] Beth Koritz: Yeah. It, it debuted as a best seller and stayed there for, you know, a couple weeks.

[00:26:08] Caitlin Fisher: Wow.

[00:26:09] Beth Koritz: I mean, not, no, no book unless you’re like a Stephen King or somebody is gonna stay there for a couple weeks. But yeah, the financially… my, my editor was also going to publish it and I kept asking her like, What are you gonna do to sell the book and da, da da da. And I wasn’t getting such great answers, but she was gonna take 25% of everything that sold.

[00:26:31] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah.

[00:26:32] Beth Koritz: And I’m like, But I’m gonna be marketing it personally and you know, so I just decided, she actually, as I was doing more and more research and I was saying, you know, are you gonna do this and you’re gonna do that? She said, You know, Beth, it seems like at this point, you know as much as I do, and maybe you should just do this yourself, because I think what she was saying was, I don’t want you on my back the whole time. You know, I don’t, Your expectations might be more than I can handle.

[00:27:02] Caitlin Fisher: That could be a blessing. It,

[00:27:04] Beth Koritz: Yeah, it was.

[00:27:05] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah.

[00:27:05] Beth Koritz: But more work.

[00:27:07] Caitlin Fisher: Little more work. Yes. But you know, those clear boundaries, I think, probably helped.

[00:27:14] Beth Koritz: It did help. And, you know, not to like toot my own horn, but I was on a panel that we have, the Jewish Book Festival in St. Louis is one of the biggest in the country, and they chose my book and they chose me to be there. They chose 10 and there were three featured and I was one of the featured. So,

[00:27:33] Caitlin Fisher: Wow.

[00:27:34] Beth Koritz: I got to speak, you know. At an event and I sold out my books there and it was, I love doing this because I can reach more people. Right. Yeah. That’s why I enjoy doing podcasts and speaking about the book and coaching, cuz I can reach more people. As a therapist, you’re limited to your state. Yes. You know, so I’ve coached people around the world and that is fun.

[00:28:01] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah. That’s really cool. Where are you based?

[00:28:04] Beth Koritz: I’m in St. Louis.

[00:28:05] Caitlin Fisher: Okay. Awesome. Not too far.

[00:28:07] Beth Koritz: Right in the middle.

[00:28:09] Caitlin Fisher: Yep. I’m in Ohio, so you know.

[00:28:11] Beth Koritz: Oh yeah. Close.

[00:28:12] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah. Not too far away. It’s, you know, Ohio, but the cost of living is cheap.

[00:28:19] Beth Koritz: Yeah. St. Louis isn’t bad either. I go to Ohio every year for a music festival.

[00:28:23] Caitlin Fisher: Oh, what music festival?

[00:28:24] Beth Koritz: Star Jubilee.

[00:28:25] Caitlin Fisher: I know nothing about it.

[00:28:27] Beth Koritz: It’s okay.

[00:28:28] Caitlin Fisher: I don’t know why I asked cuz I was gonna know nothing about any music festival that you named because I don’t go to music festivals, but I love that You do. That’s great. Yeah. Let me just collect myself. Cause I was like, Yeah, where’s the music festival? Why did I ask? I don’t know. Okay. I’m cool. I’m good. I’m collected.

So let’s jump over onto the people pleasing track. And I posted in like a podcast collab group and listed off a few topics that I wanted some people to speak on, and you raised your hand for people pleasing. So why did that topic jump out?

[00:29:10] Beth Koritz: Well, because you can’t be authentic if you’re always people pleasing. You lose your authenticity, then you know you are morphing every time, you know

[00:29:21] Caitlin Fisher: that, that social chameleon kind of vibe.

[00:29:24] Beth Koritz: Exactly. Exactly. So, and you’re sacrificing. Often. Not always, but you know. Okay. Tomorrow my brother asked me, and sister-in-law asked me if I could pick the kids up from school and I could have called a client and asked to change the time of her session, and I might have 10 years ago, you know, but this time I was like, Sorry, you know, I’m not going to compromise my integrity as a therapist to help you out. But I also know she would’ve switched with no problem.

[00:30:00] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah.

[00:30:00] Beth Koritz: Right. But my integrity was more important than pleasing them.

[00:30:07] Caitlin Fisher: That makes sense. That’s, It’s good boundaries too.

I find that authenticity and boundaries really need to coexist because the people pleasing is a lack of boundaries. I ran into this at work in my last job, my last full-time job, which I quit to become a full-time coach, so our new manager started and I wanted him to succeed, and so I was like going kind of above and beyond to like give him information and be like, that’s not gonna work, here’s why. And I was sort of catching him up on things that I knew as someone who had been at the company for years. And at around like six months, I decided he should know things now. And so I basically quit like babysitting him and I started saying no to his ridiculous asks.

And before I would kind of roll my no in like, Oh, you know, I don’t think that’s such a good idea because this and this and this. And then at this point I was just like, No, I can’t do that. Or no, I don’t think that we should do that. And I was manager level. He was above me, but I was still manager level. And he got very angry. He was pissed. He was like, You’re being insubordinate. Like we’re really having some conflicts here. And being able to give my notice to him was incredible cuz that was not a good working relationship. And I had really, I was people pleasy

[00:31:39] Beth Koritz: Your boundaries.

[00:31:40] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah, my boundaries. When they went up, they went up way too late. They should have been up very early.

[00:31:48] Beth Koritz: Mm-hmm.

[00:31:49] Caitlin Fisher: and I should have been very clear about like, here’s where I’m at. I am willing to talk to you about XYZ thing, but like, you really gotta like, kind of get your shit together here. Like if you’re gonna run a department, you need to understand how everybody in the department works.

Like I can’t be walking around behind you, like your personal assistant being like, you can’t ask them for that. That’s not what they do. But the damage was done, the people pleasing had gone on too long. The boundaries were way too late. And so that came across as me being combative and rude and inappropriate at work, when really it was how I should have been acting the entire time.

[00:32:28] Beth Koritz: Right.

[00:32:30] Caitlin Fisher: So yeah, people pleasing and boundaries hand in hand.

[00:32:34] Beth Koritz: They do. And you know, authenticity and boundaries go hand in hand. The people pleasing is, it’s just all about acceptance.

[00:32:47] Caitlin Fisher: I’ve also seen people pleasing described as part of the fawning trauma response. So people pleasing is a great way to avoid. Harm when you had a traumatic childhood. So like part of the reason I’m so good at anticipating everybody’s needs and noticing when your mood shifts two degrees cooler and I’m like, Ah, do you need a snack? Can I get you anything? Are you okay? Can I, can I help out here? It’s because I don’t want you to take out whatever just pissed you off on me in 10 minutes. That’s a therapy thing. That’s over here in therapy world.

[00:33:22] Beth Koritz: Mm-hmm.

[00:33:23] Caitlin Fisher: People pleasing in my experience, comes from trauma response as well.

[00:33:31] Beth Koritz: Mm-hmm.

[00:33:32] Caitlin Fisher: as well as just sort of losing touch with authenticity. And I think that trauma makes us lose touch with authenticity as well, because

[00:33:38] Beth Koritz: Sure.

[00:33:39] Caitlin Fisher: Right. Like I couldn’t be a wild and free child and find myself because I was really busy staying safe. So that definitely impacts trauma, right.

[00:33:49] Beth Koritz: Like there’s big T and little t traumas, right? Trauma can be not having a lot of friends as a little girl, you know, and so wanting to not upset any of the friends that you have as an adult. Out of fear of having no friends.

[00:34:05] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah.

[00:34:06] Beth Koritz: You have a small friend circle. Although introverts, as an introvert, I also have a small friend circle, but still, I’ll never forget when I invited somebody to do something like that I had tickets for and they said, ‘No thanks.’ And I was like, What? Just no thanks? You can do that?

[00:34:27] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah. That’s wild. Cause I would be like, Oh, I’ll, I’ll have to check. I’ll, I’ll have to see. Can I think about it and get back to you? That would be incredible to just be like, No, thank you.

[00:34:38] Beth Koritz: I would be like, ‘yeah!’ Thinking, Oh God, I hate this person. Like I, I mean I hate like the act we were going to see or something.

[00:34:49] Caitlin Fisher: Not like, Oh no, I hate my friend. How dare they invite me?

[00:34:52] Beth Koritz: I have no interest in this show. But, but sure I’ll go because if I say no, what if they don’t ask again?

[00:35:00] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah, right. Yeah. But when, when you are authentically yourself and you don’t have shame around that, you can just be like, you know, that’s not my thing. No thanks.

[00:35:09] Beth Koritz: Yeah. But thanks for thinking of me. Yeah. And I hope you ask me again.

[00:35:14] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah. Yeah. It’s, I think that’s great. That’s great. As an introvert, that’s great. As an autistic person, that’s great. As a traumatized kid, like that’s great on so many levels, just be able to be like, Hey, thank you. Not today. Yeah. But like, ask me next time.

[00:35:31] Beth Koritz: Yeah. So I’m trying to think, Okay. More people pleasing aspects.

Oh, I’ll give you my biggest one. I was engaged to be married. It was gonna be my second wedding, and as it got closer and closer, I was knowing with more and more certainty, I should not do this. And I remember about three days before I’m driving down the highway and I, I can remember to this day what piece of highway I was on, like to the car length.

And I thought if somebody would just tell me, I don’t have to go through with it, I wouldn’t.

[00:36:14] Caitlin Fisher: Mm-hmm.

[00:36:15] Beth Koritz: So first I needed the validation. Right, that what I was thinking was okay, and then I thought, but all of these friends of mine like have already bought their plane tickets and they’re flying out tomorrow to be here in two days. Right? I can’t do that to these people. You know, I have this whole everything going and 48 hours, I can’t do that. I would be so humiliating, right? All these things. So I went into a marriage that I shouldn’t have been in. I mean, that’s a big one.

[00:36:49] Caitlin Fisher: I did that also, like I even have a stretch of highway in my wedding like thing.

The stretch of highway was my dad on the phone telling me that he had he had paid in all that he could and that I was on my own for the rest of it. And it was like a month to go. And like the whole time he had been like, Oh, you only get married once if everything goes right. So, you know, don’t even, don’t worry about it. I got it. I got it. And I had been pressing him for a number. I’m like, How much can I count on you for so that I can plan things?

[00:37:19] Beth Koritz: Mm-hmm.

[00:37:19] Caitlin Fisher: And he’s like, Just don’t worry about it. And then he hit a limit and was like, Yeah, I’m out. And I’m like, What the fuck? But yeah, I was, I was literally at my wedding, like putting table decorations or signs or something together and I was like, I wish I wasn’t doing this. This doesn’t feel right.

[00:37:38] Beth Koritz: I actually, and this is in my book too, I got a black spot, a big spot on my nose that was black as night out of nowhere. Outta nowhere. I went to a a dermatologist and they’re like, Well, we’d have to biopsy it. And I’m like, Well, I’m getting married in seven days. I don’t think I can have a big ass bandage on my nose.

And I had my friend who was doing my makeup, apply makeup like it was sparkle on my nose to cover it. And a cousin comes up to me at the party afterwards and is like, ‘You have dirt on your nose.’ Like my whole body revolted.

[00:38:12] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah.

[00:38:13] Beth Koritz: To the point. The nose, You know how they say it’s as clear as the nose on your face?

[00:38:17] Caitlin Fisher: Mm-hmm.

[00:38:20] Beth Koritz: did it anyway.

[00:38:21] Caitlin Fisher: Dang.

[00:38:23] Beth Koritz: That would never happen. I mean, not only would that never happen now, I would’ve never even gotten to that point with this person.

[00:38:32] Caitlin Fisher: So I take it that you’re divorced. Yeah. I’m also in the two divorces club. Yep. Yeah, Yeah. I found myself wishing like maybe I could just ask the officiant to like, not file it. And I would just keep that secret that we weren’t actually married. Boy, when you’re doing those mental gymnastics, right. Who am I getting married for?

[00:39:00] Beth Koritz: Yeah, I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to interrupt you.

[00:39:03] Caitlin Fisher: No, sorry. I, I’m just marinating in my life choices.

[00:39:09] Beth Koritz: I think that the important message that you and I are trying to get out, and I think it’s worth actually laying out, okay, is that we’re not telling our stories to entertain, right? We’re telling our stories to show that no matter where you are in your life, you also can make this change.

[00:39:40] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah.

[00:39:40] Beth Koritz: Right? I mean, we all have shit. Now, here’s one of the big fears about becoming authentic, and it’s a legit fear, is that as you grow into your real self and into the life that you are meant to be living, you can lose people along the way.

[00:39:59] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah.

[00:40:00] Beth Koritz: And you know, that keeps a lot of people stuck.

[00:40:06] Caitlin Fisher: It really does because the fear of losing those relationships is a lot.

[00:40:11] Beth Koritz: Yeah. That keeps a lot of people stuck and you know, I don’t wanna be glib about this because it’s a big deal, but you have to understand that you are sacrificing what your life can and is supposed to be for a relationship, whether it’s a friendship or a intimate partnership or, but it’s a relationship built on inauthenticity. You know, a relationship that is not built on a strong foundation to begin with.

[00:40:54] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah. That’s kind of important to keep in mind because if, if that wasn’t really you, You know, it was part you, it was you playing the part of the, the dutiful wife or whatever that person wanted.

[00:41:11] Beth Koritz: Best friend.

[00:41:12] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah.

[00:41:13] Beth Koritz: Mm-hmm.

[00:41:14] Caitlin Fisher: That was really hard for me after my divorce, my second divorce, when I left my abusive ex. I had a best friend who helped me get through all of it, and we ended up dating for a while, me and my best friend, but as I was sort of establishing these new boundaries and I was changing a lot and she didn’t like when the boundaries applied to her and that, that hurt a lot, that, you know, you, you were so excited for me to like stand up for myself against him, but I can’t stand up for myself against you. Like if I do that, I’m shitty. I’m being a shitty partner because I’m not just all sunshine and rainbows and unicorn farts all the time for you.

[00:41:58] Beth Koritz: Right.

[00:41:59] Caitlin Fisher: And that, that was really hard. That was a pretty short lived relationship, but the, the ending of a multi-year friendship was the, the hard part of that. So yeah, I’ve definitely lived that , that authentic, as you kind of expand and take up more, Space for your energy.

[00:42:18] Beth Koritz: Yeah. You allow yourself more to, you allow yourself to take up more space. We no longer are small.

[00:42:25] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah.

[00:42:26] Beth Koritz: Right.

[00:42:26] Caitlin Fisher: I take up a lot of space.

[00:42:27] Beth Koritz: We no longer make ourselves Small, right? Yeah, exactly. People can’t see us, but we’re like filling up our room.

[00:42:34] Caitlin Fisher: We’re dancing.

[00:42:35] Beth Koritz: Yeah. But you know, we, especially women. I have been told for decades and decades to make ourselves small. And we’re damn good at it.

[00:42:49] Caitlin Fisher: Oh yeah.

[00:42:50] Beth Koritz: You know, it takes time to become comfortable taking up space.

[00:42:55] Caitlin Fisher: It does. I once was called Unobtrusive and I thought it was the best compliment I had ever received. And now if somebody told me that, I’d be like, How? Like I’m literally so loud. And so like… I have bright red glasses and a bunch of face piercings and platinum blonde hair. Like, how did you miss this?

[00:43:18] Beth Koritz: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, a synonym for unobtrusive is invisible. Yeah. I think, I mean, yeah, close enough in the dictionary that way, but yeah.

You know? Yeah. And. Oh God, I just, There’s nothing more freeing. It frees your mind. It frees your soul. You feel it in the cells of your body to be fully authentic in any given situation, to not dress like everybody else. If that doesn’t feel good on you.

[00:43:55] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah.

[00:43:56] Beth Koritz: Right, to saying No or to turn left when everybody else is turning right and you’re okay with it because left looks Goddamn good to you.

[00:44:08] Caitlin Fisher: Right.

One of the biggest ways I shifted this was with body positivity. I used to, like, my whole life’s purpose was to lose weight. I was trying to lose 150 pounds and, I lost a hundred, and I looked sick as hell. And when you look at photos of me, I look like if you said good morning to me, I would burst into tears.

Because I wasn’t sleeping, I wasn’t eating near enough. I had a full like full blown eating disorder and was exercising way more than I should have been for the amount of food I was eating. But it was all about shrinking and shrinking and shrinking and taking up less and less and less space. Physically, emotionally, spiritually.

I was a shell. And when I started eating disorder recovery, the first thing you do is stop restricting. I don’t diet anymore. I do not restrict. So like if I wanted cake for breakfast, I would eat it. Turns out I don’t want cake for breakfast. I want eggs like every day. I love eggs. But I have gained weight because that’s what a body does after you starve it.

[00:45:19] Beth Koritz: Yeah.

[00:45:19] Caitlin Fisher: And I am now the heaviest I’ve ever been, but also I’ve never smiled like this.

[00:45:25] Beth Koritz: Yeah.

[00:45:25] Caitlin Fisher: Like my presence. I’m just full. I’m vibrant and I’m happy to take up space. Yeah. And it just hits different and like, yeah. I’m annoyed that like, the world doesn’t like to see me like this. And I’m like, Well, fuck you. I’m wearing a crop top to pride. Like look at my belly. I don’t care what you think. And that’s great. And I love. I love me.

[00:45:59] Beth Koritz: That’s awesome. You know, I I think that health, health at every size and intuitive eating is becoming more and more mainstream. I think so too. Right. Then when I became certified in it, oh my gosh, like seven years ago. Eight, eight years ago, not so much. Right. It was just starting to be, you know, words that people had heard before, you know?

[00:46:29] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah.

[00:46:29] Beth Koritz: Ooh, I have one little brag.

[00:46:31] Caitlin Fisher: Ooh, do it.

[00:46:33] Beth Koritz: Elyse Resch, who is like, you know, the founder, the co-founder of Intuitive Eating, wrote all like the very first Bibles and still does on intuitive eating.

[00:46:45] Caitlin Fisher: All right.

[00:46:45] Beth Koritz: Wrote a blurb for the back of my book.

[00:46:48] Caitlin Fisher: That’s dope.

[00:46:51] Beth Koritz: Yep.

[00:46:52] Caitlin Fisher: That’s awesome.

[00:46:53] Beth Koritz: Yep. I was pretty excited about that one.

[00:46:55] Caitlin Fisher: That’s a pretty cool blurb.

[00:46:57] Beth Koritz: Yeah, cuz I just cold called her

[00:46:59] Caitlin Fisher: Nice!

[00:47:00] Beth Koritz: You know, and said I am certified in body positivity and I’m going through your certification program and would you read my book? And then if you felt it deserved a comment. That’d be so awesome. And then we became penpals

[00:47:20] Caitlin Fisher: Nice! I wanna read your book.

[00:47:22] Beth Koritz: Yeah, I will have to send it to you.

[00:47:24] Caitlin Fisher: Thanks!

[00:47:24] Beth Koritz: You’ll have to give me your address after this and I’ll mail you —

[00:47:27] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah, for sure. I’d love to read it because

[00:47:28] Beth Koritz: — A real copy.

[00:47:30] Caitlin Fisher: I’ve had a memoir percolating right now. I’m working on fiction, but I really, I think I wanna do a memoir and I wanna, obviously I need to read more memoir.

[00:47:39] Beth Koritz: Mm-hmm. Yeah, that’d be awesome.

[00:47:42] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah, that’d be great. I can send you a copy of mine too. It’s about millennials.

[00:47:45] Beth Koritz: Yeah, that’d be awesome. I’d love that. Yeah. I have a daughter about your age, who’s also a therapist.

In order, when I’m working with people on getting to know themselves and then liking that person and then stepping into their authenticity for about a hundred percent of them, we have to go through body image issues.

[00:48:07] Caitlin Fisher: Mm-hmm.

[00:48:09] Beth Koritz: I mean, there’s just not a person on earth. I used to say a woman on earth, but now I say a person because it’s really hit the other side of the population too that doesn’t have body image issues.

[00:48:22] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And that’s why, you know, so my podcast is primarily about, Creativity and like self development and positivity and stuff like that. But I talk about body image all the time, like probably at least half the episodes.

[00:48:40] Beth Koritz: Mm-hmm.

[00:48:40] Caitlin Fisher: I mention body positive something or other. And a, a big thing about me, and this is also… I wanna write a self-help book, but I wanna write a self-help book that doesn’t have any diet references. Right. Because it’s so common. For self-help books, like Rachel Hollis comes to mind. I hate her. She wrote, Girl Wash Your Face.

[00:49:02] Beth Koritz: Oh, right, yeah.

[00:49:03] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah. And she directly states that fat people are untrustworthy. Because they can’t,

[00:49:11] Beth Koritz: Where does that even come from?

[00:49:12] Caitlin Fisher: Because they can’t stay accountable to their body and their diet, and so therefore they’re bad people. And I’m like, Cool. All right. Bestselling asshole. Like, I’m gonna fight you with a better book.

[00:49:25] Beth Koritz: And it’s so, you know, that shit pisses me off because it’s, I mean, not only is it ignorant and hateful and spiteful, but it’s just plain, scientifically wrong.

[00:49:36] Caitlin Fisher: Correct.

[00:49:38] Beth Koritz: You know, So fuck her.

[00:49:40] Caitlin Fisher: Yes.

Fuck her. Fuck Rachel Hollis. That’s what this episode will be called. It probably won’t but

[00:49:47] Beth Koritz: it could be the The subtitle.

[00:49:49] Caitlin Fisher: The subtitle. Yeah. We’ll be like,

[00:49:51] Beth Koritz: I love that.

[00:49:52] Caitlin Fisher: Yes. Body positivity, people pleasing and fuck Rachel hollis. .

[00:49:56] Beth Koritz: Yeah. I have read a plethora of IE [intuitive eating] books, right. And HAES [Health At Every Size] books, and I think you have to read the right one at the right time.

[00:50:07] Caitlin Fisher: Mm-hmm.

[00:50:08] Beth Koritz: but my favorite. And it, it, it just didn’t say anything I didn’t already know, but it was the way she said it… was The Unfuck It Diet. No, not The Unfuck It Diet.

[00:50:20] Caitlin Fisher: The Fuck It Diet!

[00:50:21] Beth Koritz: The Fuck It Diet.

[00:50:22] Caitlin Fisher: Hang on.

MUSICAL INTERLUDE. Caitlin returns holding a copy of “The Fuck It Diet” by Caroline Dooner.

[00:50:33] Beth Koritz: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. That one.

[00:50:36] Caitlin Fisher: This is the book that got me into recovery.

[00:50:38] Beth Koritz: Right? It’s the best. Yeah. We should all be getting commission right now. But it is the best. It’s so funny.

[00:50:47] Caitlin Fisher: And yeah, I loved her writing style and yeah, she did teach me a lot that I didn’t already know. So for anybody who hasn’t heard me talk about, this is the Fuck It Diet by Caroline Doer.

She is thin. I just wanna let people know she’s a thin person writing about health at every size. Because I do like to promote fat people writing about health at every size and uplift those voices as well. But this book is Fire . It’s so good.

[00:51:13] Beth Koritz: Yeah, it’s, it just, it just got me. Going in away all the other books, you know, I mean, the other times, another book’s gonna do it for you.

[00:51:24] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah.

[00:51:25] Beth Koritz: You know, it just depends where you are in your life that week, you know?

[00:51:28] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah. It’s so fun. And I recommended this to my friend as well. Her name is Sarah. She’s probably listening, Hey Sarah. But she refers to it as the Dooner book, and she sends copies to her friends, all the time.

[00:51:42] Beth Koritz: That’s great.

[00:51:43] Caitlin Fisher: And she credits me with helping her unpack a lot of her own fat phobia. So she is thinner, she’s very fit very athletic and was recently, like within the last few years, diagnosed with type one diabetes. And so she will

[00:51:57] Beth Koritz: type one?

[00:51:58] Caitlin Fisher: I think, I’m pretty sure, type one, maybe type two. I don’t know. Diabetes.

[00:52:03] Beth Koritz: It’s weird to be, to have that diagnosis as an adult.

[00:52:05] Caitlin Fisher: That’s true. So maybe it is type two, but the fact that she is so athletic and slimmer. She, she will fight somebody. She fights doctors all the time. She will fight anybody who associates that with diabetes. And she’s like, No, it’s not true. And I honestly think that our friendship and my own ed journey really helped her process that. That diagnosis. And the fact that, you know, she does have to track some carbs, but she can do it in a non triggering, non-ed way. And that she really self-advocates in the doctor’s office. She’s like, No, it feels wrong. Like, just run the blood work like something’s wrong and I wanna figure out what specifically is wrong. And she’s just so aware and in her body. And I love that for her, for everybody.

[00:53:01] Beth Koritz: I, I have a therapy client who is type one and I got her to have a pack of cookies in her house. you know, I mean, she had been just depriving herself her whole life. and diabetes and health and every size can totally go together.

Yeah. You don’t have to live in a state of total restriction and denial, denying yourself things that you see as like delicious. Like Gratifyingly splendid.

I hope you can’t hear my dogs.

[00:53:37] Caitlin Fisher: I can, but it’s fine.

[00:53:38] Beth Koritz: Okay. Yeah. And you know, and then this is a whole nother topic for another day, but as people with ADHD eating, It’s hard.

[00:53:51] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah, it is. I wasn’t,

[00:53:53] Beth Koritz: It’s hard.

[00:53:54] Caitlin Fisher: I was not hungry today for lunch, but I made myself eat something because yesterday I wasn’t hungry for lunch and then I almost passed out at four.

[00:54:02] Beth Koritz: It’s too, it, it’s work that paralyzes our ADHD brain in that moment. So, I mean, I, I’m, I’m gonna be 60 in a couple months and I’m still trying to figure this out.


[00:54:12] Caitlin Fisher: Food stuff is so steeped in diet culture and then there’s ADHD stuff around the food. So like with, I have Carl, my eating disorder. Also with the adhd. And sometimes he’s like, Hey, yeah, there’s adhd. Why don’t you just not eat lunch? And I have to be like, Fuck off Carl. I have to eat. And then I eat.

But it’s like–

[00:54:32] Beth Koritz: I don’t, I just work right through. Cuz I’m not hungry.

[00:54:35] Caitlin Fisher: I do typically get the hunger signals, but not always. Yeah. Eventually it kicks in and I’m like, Oh shit. What time is it? Yeah, we’re speaking of what time is it. Is we are, We are at our time. Okay, so , I don’t wanna keep you too long, so why don’t you tell us a bit about where we can find you online and what, what you’re offering right now.

[00:54:58] Beth Koritz: That would be great. So you can find me online at And my email is

Right now, and you really, you said something at the beginning that I would love to come back and talk to you about, but right now I am focusing only on one-to-one clients. You talked about like slowing down and healing at the beginning. I am in that zone right now.

[00:55:25] Caitlin Fisher: Okay.

[00:55:25] Beth Koritz: I’m not doing any launches or running any programs. I’m just doing one-on-ones right now.

[00:55:31] Caitlin Fisher: All right. I love that for you and I love that you recognize that you needed that. I’m doing the same. I’m about to launch a a 12 month writing incubator program.

[00:55:43] Beth Koritz: Wow.

[00:55:44] Caitlin Fisher: And I’m super pumped about it. And I’m gonna make that sort of my, my main offer right now, because it’s like,

[00:55:50] Beth Koritz: That sounds awesome.

[00:55:51] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah. It’s like in the middle of like my lowest cost offer and then the, the one on one. I’m like, No, this is right in the middle. This is, It’s gonna be tasty. So

[00:56:00] Beth Koritz: that sounds awesome for somebody who likes to write

[00:56:03] Caitlin Fisher: Yes, it does. Not you. I will not see you there . Cause you do not want to write a book.

[00:56:09] Beth Koritz: done that, Been there, done that. No, but I’d love to come back and talk to you about so many other things.

[00:56:15] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah, let’s do this again. For sure.

[00:56:18] Beth Koritz: Thanks for having me.

[00:56:19] Caitlin Fisher: Yeah, thanks for being here. This was a really fun conversation. I think we have a lot in common. We do a lot of. Life experience that echoes each other, even though we’re, we’ve got a 25 year age gap.

[00:56:32] Beth Koritz: You know, that’s never meant anything to me. Yeah. I’ve always been like any age gap I can immediately relate to and have rapport with. Means nothing. I love that. I loved meeting you and your energy is amazing.

[00:56:45] Caitlin Fisher: Thank you. I don’t need that external validation, but I receive it and I appreciate it. And yes, your energy is also flawless.

[00:56:55] Beth Koritz: Thank you. Thank you.

[00:56:57] Caitlin Fisher: This was lovely. Thank you so much.

[00:56:58] Beth Koritz: Yeah, thank you for having me. Bye.


Published by Caitlin

Caitlin writes and coaches about trauma recovery, relationships, motivation and confidence, self-love, queer identity, and social justice. They are the author of The Gaslighting of the Millennial Generation. Find their work at

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